think it's got americans talking, for the first time, on this issue, in a really surprising way. i was -- i was struck not by how many democrats or liberals called after the show and said, boy, we really liked what you guys did and the conversation was needed. i was struck by how many friends of mine from first baptist church in pensacola, florida, that are lifetime members of the nra, who went out hunting across northwest florida and alabama and georgia and mississippi, from the time they were 9, 10. jon meacham, you were raised in a similar culture. although you were wearing white gloves during your formative years. i'm sorry. i was struck that the most

passionate people that said what you always want to hear, thank you for saying what i wanted to say. thank you for putting into words. they were -- they were, my friends from first baptist church, they were hunters, they were people that said, i'm not going to have somebody -- i'm not going to have extremists take my right to keep and bear a arms, protect my family, and go hunting with my kids. >> i think that's the key word. gun owners who think this through realize that the second amendment culture has bone totally captured by extremists since before really, but i think the marker is when, in 1994, i think, the phrase, jack booted thugs, remember, was used about the atf and people like george

h.w. bush and norman schwartzcof resigned from the nra. with every horrible act that happens, it's taken too long, but the story of the country in many ways is of coming to a consciousness that is overdue. >> let's also talk, mika, about the financial incentives of the gun trade. >> well -- >> they're out there as well. this is not just about politics, it's not just about liberty, about a lot of money, too. >> the big thing that's happening here and you see that in the people who are speaking out and those who are not, there's a shift in attitudes, as the "new york times" puts in their headline today, i think will be lasting. i don't know how any -- there are several networks, not just ours, having trouble finding pro gun advocates to speak out because there's really nothing to say at this point.

can you think of anything in your political career, where something has happened and you realize you just can't take -- >> 9/11. 9/11 happened and there were a lot of conservatives after 9/11 very wary, very suspicious of federal government expansion, expansion of powers. and i'm one of them. that afterwards, you're like, okay, if the tsa wants to be intrusive, let the tsa be intrusive. if we have to do things that make me uncomfortable, as a small government conservative. fine. this is really, this is a domestic version of 9/11, where everything changed. >> everything did change. one thing joe manchin said yesterday, after he talked about his transformation and the way he thinks about guns and gun rights, was that the president needs to move quickly on this if they're going to do something significant, talking about in

the next week, the next couple of weeks before unfortunately this moment to some degree will pass, will move out of the news cycle a little bit and we won't focus on it as we are. joe manchin, not alone said if we're going to do something significant and lasting, it has to happen quickly! the president has to show leadership on that. he put out in his speech something has to give. he has to push hard if it's going to change. >> it needs to be comprehensive. mi you've been talking about guns such a long time. it does need to be comprehensive. there are hollywood interests. it's so fascinating, very few criticism, almost none from the right, of what we said yesterday. almost none. a couple critiques from the far left, say iing, i didn't get ho dare you talking about

infringing on our rights. i actually gotsome leftists talking about how dare you talk about infringing on our rights. we're all going to have to meet in the middle to save our children, leftists, extreme right wingers and they have to know the old rules don't apply. quinton tarantino said something call lou call -- callous yesterday who made millions of dollars making violent movies he sells to teenage boys, ah, these things happen. i'm not going to cancel anything. i will promote this. i think harvey stepped in, you are, we are going to cancel some of this stuff. everybody has to give. everybody has to realize there are extreme ideologies and --

>> no matter what happens, as we progress here, we're always going to have the fringe. the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right. this is one of those unique events, i would submit, as in life, it will happen in politics, where emotion will pull the logic train. the emotion of what happened in newtown, connecticut, the emotion contained in a week of funerals, we're at the front of a church or synagogue or a mosque, you're going to be very small -- there are going to be very small caskets. t.j., if we still have the picture of jack pinto buried yesterday in newtown, connecticut, buried in his little league uniform, that right there is what is going to change the dialogue for this. people carry around for years pictures of their children in little league uniforms, hockey uniforms, first and second grade school picture. that's the picture, the emotion

that will pull this thing. >> if it doesn't, there's a serious problem. i understand the president does -- has a lot to do, when it comes to making sure that our economy doesn't fall off the cliff. there are tens of millions of working americans that know that the fiscal cliff situation needs to be addressed. isn't human nature funny, though, how we need to get moving on this? >> those critical issues you just mentioned, they seem so insignificant. >> i mean, if they can't figure that out -- >> i think that's one of the reasons -- >> give us something. >> why the president moved, john boehner moved. >> it would look ridiculous at this point in light of everything. >> they need to get this taken care of. then the president does, as david letterman was saying, the president needs to do something. my friends in the republican

party need to do something and i know they will. i really believe, they will listen, jon meacham, to their friends in the church, enough is enough. protect our children. >> i keep thinking about bloody sunday through the voting rights act. march to august of '65, where john lewis and isaiah williams are nearly beaten to death. that film from selma, is in a newsbreak, as abc is showing judgment at nurenburg. suddenly americans are watching this movie about the third rite and realizing there are still storm troopers in the united states beating people for fundamental rights and they were themselves martyrs. johnson went to congress that week and by august the bill was signed. it requires that kind of presidential leadership. to harness this emotion before

it dissipates. >> so let's take it to newtown, connecticut, which is a community attempting to move forward after the events that killed 20 children and six adults. classes resume today in several schools with additional security. the town will also say its final good-byes to 6-year-old jessica rekos. m services were held yesterday and 6-year-old noah pozner and jack pinto. pinto's family vowed to celebrate jack's life remembering the gift we were given and will forever cherish. several other services planned throughout the week including two private funerals for tomorrow including one for sandy school elementary school principal, dawn hochsprung, after she confronted the killer, lanza. and hoping his computer will

provide more information about the shooting. that drive however was removed from the computer and severely damaged by the shooter. so far, police have been unsuccessful in attempts to retrieve any of the drive's data. officials are also reporting the guns used in the massacre were purchased legally by his mother, nancy lanza and shorts verified she and her son had visited local shooting ranges. >> we have to be very careful. >> i will be very careful. >> we have to be very careful. i do not understand. >> i don't get it. >> by all accounts, he -- >> i don't understand this part of the story. >> was a challenged child that needed support. >> i don't understand this part of the story. >> actually, my husband covered the story yesterday. that exact angle, why she had guns, why she went with him.

what that was about. >> jim is obviously an investigative reporter at wabc. >> a couple people came to her defense. it still is a huge question. >> what did he conclude in this story? >> it's just a question. why would you have those guns? you can have them legally, and if you have a child that is challen challenging, that perhaps has a disorder of some sort, by all accounts he had asberger's or something else, just what was the reason for the connection and the exposure to assault weapons. >> there was something connected -- obviously, we -- >> apparently she took him to these shooting ranges. >> i'm just saying on the asberger's front, there are obviously a lot of children with asbergers that don't present problems but this child presented obvious challenges for a very long time. i'm curious, was there an answer as to why she collected --

>> she was a gun enthusiast. according to people in the area, that is something that is quite popular there. there is a shooting range nearby. there is obviously the foundation that supports gun owners, about three miles from the school. it's part of the culture. certainly, that should be taken into consideration. there is absolutely no data that links asberger's to violent acts. >> no. >> the question is as a parent -- look, i'm a parent and i wouldn't want guns in my house. i just wouldn't. i'd be too nervous about it. i don't understand how that can happen and i'm going to say that. i don't have a problem. >> you say that as somebody -- >> that might be a little judgmental. i grew up around guns and they always made me incredibly nervous. >> your family had guns. >> family of hunters, they still do. my brothers hunt and i usually come home to a pickup truck with a deer in the back when i come

home for christmas. from my perspective, which is not completely separate from the gun culture, it doesn't make any sense to me. of course, it's easy to say that in retrospect, but it doesn't make any sense. >> we don't know the whole story there, we may never because they're both deceased. the reason you go to the gun range, you teach them how to use guns safely. you go to a gun range so he knows how to operate them and use them safely. that doesn't answer the question whether or not she should have had them in the house at all with a child like that. >> a glock. >> guess what? we're never going to know. >> is it okay to ask the question? a lot of people will jump all over this. >> you just wonder -- jon, you wanted to say something. >> the room in my grandparents house where i spent my childhood was called "the gun room." >> right. >> it was shotguns, it w was -- the safest place to be a quail in the 1980s was anywhere near me because i was going to

miss. but it's -- there was never any question about bushmasters and -- >> right. >> that's the thing. >> hundreds of rounds -- >> what senator manchin said yesterday so important about he never had more than three shells in a rifle. that's where this cultural thing. people say, oh, well, people on the upper eastside don't understand tennessee or georgia or alabama. that's nonsense. i was born in northwest florida. i mean, i was born in georgia, i moved to meridian, mississippi. i lived in the out-skirts of meridian mississippi. i grew up with -- i mean -- the bedroom community of briar wood, i mean, we -- i'm dead serious. there were woods all around us. we spent our summer days outside. everybody had guns.

everybody had guns. everybody hunted. i went to school, university of alabama. i lived in tuscaloosa for four years. i lived in northwest florida. all my friends at church, hunters, my friends at school, hunters, i've never ever talked to one, never talked to one that said, you know what, i need a 10 millimeter glock. i need a bushmaster. if i don't have those, then you know what, my culture is being infringed upon. it's nonsense. these weapons are part of a culture. but they're not part of my culture and they're not part of your culture, they're not part of my northwest florida culture or tus sca loose sa, alabama culture or meridian, mississippi culture or georgia culture or central florida culture where i went to law school. i spent my entire life growing up around people who hunted all

the time. hunting and fishing. it's like boo weekley, after he won the ryder cup, he's from florida where my dad group. the out-skirts of pensacola florida. >> bedroom community. >> bedroom community. the attitude is, where i'm from, after he won the ryder cup. you have to be excited. he said, well, i can't hunt or fish, this is a nice third. he was dead serious. those are the people i represented. and i tell you what, 95% of them that i sat in the church pews with, 99% of them, they wouldn't tell you this morning that a 10 millimeter glock is a sacred part of their culture they had to protect. if they didn't have a bushmaster in their house -- >> is -- >> with 300 rounds of ammunition. >> is bushmaster and ammunition, that's family time, to go to a

shoot range and blow up things? come on. >> jon, you grew up like i grew up, really, you lived in tennessee for four years, i can't tell you how many homes i've been in across the south and there were shotguns and the shotguns were in the cabinets. >> yeah. >> everywhere. >> nothing wrong with that. >> no. that's our way of life. not only the south, i mean, all over the country. please, i wish i could say -- i wish i could say the worse because i've said much worse. this b.s. this is a sacred part of the american culture is, willie, b.s. >> even mayor michael bloomberg as tough as can be on guns doesn't want to take away the second amendment. you can have guns, you just can't have assault rifles. >> i don't think he grew up in the south. >> no, i don't think so either. >> south medford, massachusetts.

n near tufts. >> as we sit here in new york, you can't discount the sentiment that is out there that is a slippery slope. if i begin to take a way afew things they will come for everything else. >> you're exactly right. it's not a sensible argument, because nobody that i know, and including me and my family, needed this kind of assault weapon culture. i think what changed, i go back to early '90s thing, the rise of the glock, about which books have been written, the phrase "assault weapon" itself is a post vietnam phrase. something happened in the '80s, early '90s, that militarized, that su ddsudomilitarized the ce

and the capture of the nra. what was the nra in the 1950s? where you learned how to shoot a target. >> do you remember, i'm sure you do, at the start of the first gulf war, millions of americans sat around and watched, on tv, a video game, in ee feffect, of w being conducted in the middle east. startling pictures. general schwartz corkoff get up we have the video games on the ground, that may have been the psyche of too many americans that war, assault weapons is a video game. that is certainly what we have going on today. if you see the advertisements for some of these video games you were speaking to yesterday.

there was no concept of the reality of what a gunshot looks like on a human being. >> there is no concept of the actual noise of gunfire or the damage that a glock or certainly a bushmaster or assault weapon can do because you have a video game mentality. >> by the way, a lot of the people that are reflexively supporting the right of people to have semi-automatic weapons, they have no idea. they just have no idea. it's reflexive. enough is enough. >> that's where culture and political leadership comes in. people do believe this is a munich. if you get one thing, they're coming for the next. it's not true and that argument has to be made in a convincing way.

>> we have people like joe manchin coming out, lifetime member of the nra, governor of west virginia, grew up in the hunting culture. that's the key. you have to have more people. with all due respect to michael bloomberg, he ain't going to convince anybody in america that it's not a slippery slope. he's just not but joe manchin will. other conservatives from the south, out west. people that grew up in a hunting culture, where you walk around the gun room, you sat at night with cases around, with fathers that taught you how to use guns safely, those are the people that will sway this debate. >> here's what i will say about bloomberg that there is -- now, because of how much time he's served, real data in new york city, as to what he has been

able to do, that shows certain important numbers going down. he'll talk more about that when he comes on the show. >> understand what i'm -- >> i know. >> understand what i'm saying about mike. mike has been out front on this for a very long time. i'm just talking about willie's concern and the concern of all of us that some law abiding nra members are not going to be moved and swayed by what michael bloomberg says, whereas a guy like joe manchin that grew up in this culture, that understands this culture. >> yeah. >> will be able to say, hey, listen, here's the deal. they're not coming for our guns. i'll be the first to stand in the way of my door and not let the government come for my guns or your guns. but you know what, i don't have a 10 millimeter glock because when i take my kids and grandkids out deer hunting, i don't need a glock or a bushmaster to take them down or

to protect my house more importantly. coming up, we will talk to new york city mayor michael bloomberg and senator elect chris murphy and tom brokaw and eugene robinson. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> rainy morning, mika. yesterday, fog problems, baltimore's airport was shut down last night. have to make up a lot of flights this morning. the rain will be moving out. if you're traveling in northern new england, that's the only place we have snow and other places green, rainy in providence. and "new york times" and philadelphand -- new york city and philadelphia, you're clearing it out. it will be a very mild afternoon. this is one of the last warm days we will see for a while and by this weekend, it will be cold in many areas of the east. as far as the rest of the

country, significant snowstorms in colorado headi ing for the plains and iowa could get nailed by a significant snowstorm tomorrow and thursday morning. for today's forecast, the midwest, you're okay for travel today. tomorrow, that storm begins to slide your way. i mentioned that cold air. look at chicago. those are highs friday and saturday, after the storm goes by a significant chunk of cold air will invade much of the country. if you're on the oweast coast hoping for a white christmas, i don't see it happening. this holiday, share everything.

share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. shareable data across 10 devices with unlimited talk and text. hurry in for a droid incredible 4g lte by htc for $49.99. time now to take a look at the morning papers at 29 past the hour. the maui news, the second longest serving senator in u.s.

history, democrat senator inouye died from respiratory complications. president obama praised him calling inoue a true american hero. his staff says his final word was aloha. he was 88 years old. a great, as the president said, great american hero. the charleston post, south carolina governor, nikki haley, selects republican tim scott to replace out-going jim demint. the tea party will be switching and will become the first african-american senator ever from south carolina. >> "boston globe," taking new steps to speed up your check-in this holiday season. the elderly members of the military and other travelers deemed low risk will now be able to keep their shoes, jackets and belts on. the tsa has also expanded its

pre-check trusted traveler program to 35 airports. >> those trusted travelers, t.j. >> and a look with "politico" playbook, jim vandyheim. >> there was some movement on the fiscal cliff talks. >> yes. i would say substantial movement where you can see the contours of a deal that can get done potentially pretty quick where the president is willing to say i'm willing to not just raise taxes on people making more than $250, more than $400,000 and came back and said he would agree to more spending cuts the demand republicans have been making. a lot of them would be directedality entdirected ali at entitlement programs for republicans.

you can see a deal that could come together well before christmas. getting to a top line number looking at a trillion in tax increases and spending cuts. >> i guess as part of the deal, correct me if i am wrong, the president's offer moved the tax rate from 250,000 to $400,000. >> correct. >> where they would keep the taxes higher? >> we always thought it would end up somewhere around here, because there's a lot of democrats that represent places like new york, where $250,000, they thought that's too low. they still think there's some families, have lots of kids living in a big city, $250,000 doesn't qualify as wealthy so they wanted that number higher. the end number will probably be around 400 or $500,000, which is significant movement in the president's part and much closer to where boehner wants to be. remember, boehner over the weekend started this idea above a million dollars. it's a little bit of back and forthright now. you guys were talking earlier in

the show on gun control, in this environment there's a tremendous amount of pressure for both parties to show they can work together and get something done. you clearly see that happening with boehner and obama and does feel like the trajectory is headed towards a pre-christmas deal and set the stage for a very lively debate for gun control and immigration early next year. for your gun control debate, i wouldn't assume the power of the nra means this debate will be very difficult for president obama and folks who want to do something on gun laws to win. if you remember, there's been no debate in congress for almost a decade now about gun control, largely because there was conventional wisdom, you just can't touch those issues. no one touched them because they felt it hurt politicians in 2000, hurt politicians in 1994. the environment, as you guys have been speaking to the last two days is radically different today than a month ago. >> jim, i was just talking about the culture in northwest florida, where i'm from.

you're from oshkosh, wisconsin. let me tell you something, people in wisconsin take their hunting every bit as seriously as people in northwest florida or tennessee. i would dare say the hunters you grew up with in oshkosh feel like a lot of my friends i'm hearing from at first baptist church of pensacola saying, hey, we're pro gun, part of our culture, daddy took us out hunting from the time we were very young, but glocks, bush masters, that's not a part of the culture we're willing to defend because it's not a part of our culture. >> right. i think a good thing you had the last two days on your show, you don't just have a panel of folks hostile to guns. you've hunted, lots of friends who hunt. i'm going hunting on friday. i think there's a difference between -- there's a lot of gun owners, hunters and gun owners. it really is to the fringe where people are really adamant they want to be able to have sem

semi-automatic assault rifles and people made the case they don't want the government coming after them. people in the middle didn't want the government to touch assault weapons in the past but i don't think in private are that resistant to doing something on the gun laws going forward knowing it will not prevent tragedies in the future but may be part one of sending a signal dealing with mental illness and gun control on the margins try to prevent stuff that happened in this tragedy. >> that's the key there, on the margins, you just said it. so many gun laws, even the most liberal democratic senators have been pushing for, over the past 10 years would not have prevented what happened in newtown, it happened in connecticut, a waiting period would have helped. >> right. >> you can obviouskacan only do

do. you can do this on the margins. will these new gun laws that go after semi-automatic, military style weapons stop every slaughter? no. will curving violence in our culture stop everything, willie? no, it won't. will an increase in mental health counseling and screening and prevention help? no. but we have got to do whatever we can do, even understanding that no solution's going to be perfect. we'll make -- we'll do what we can do on the margins. jim is right. this is not 1994. if republicans didn't get that message in november, then they will never get that message. we're ainu century. we're ainu political era.

americans are expecting republicans to wake up and face that reality on a lot of issues or go the way of the wigs. >> if those who want significant change on guns really want it, it has to happen soon. there are a lot of -- those 31 republican senators who wouldn't come on our show, they're saying nothing, they're not coming out in support of guns at this moment but laying low hoping this moment passes. if you want to get something done, there has to be movement soon. >> it goes to what joe was just talking about. we have another piece on our site today really going into numbers looking at the dem graphic challenges facing the republican party. one of the things they're really concerned about in private is being a mostly white mostly male, mostly rural, mostly conservative party. you talk about issues like immigration and gay marriage and gun control, you're looking at reaching out, if you're a republican leader, to other parts of the country that have not voted for you in the last two presidential elections,

suddenly, gun control does fit in that matrix of issues, how do you talk about them and how do you legislate on them. no doubt gun control is harder for republicans than immigration because it goes to the core of theology for so many republicans. there's a lot of rethinking going on, much more serious rethinking than people understand. >> i think it's something the republicans have to figure out. do they want to be the par party -- this is what it will boil down to. this is the new world they live in. do they want to be seen two years from now, which they will and and, and four years from now, the party of dwlglocks, bushmasters, rapid fire magazine clips. if they want to go around and debate that the next four years. good luck. >> pointing out these gun makers, major ones are owned by private equity funds on wall street. >> if they want to do that, good

luck with it. i would prefer my party be the party of less tax, balanced budget, smaller government, restrained foreign policy. if we debate that, if we debate less taxes, less spending, balanced budgets over the next four years, we'll win. if we're having to defend glocks, 10 millimeter glocks, bush mast e bushma bushma bushmasters -- >> ridiculous. >> assault styled weapons, we will lose. >> those are now quality of life issues. >> we will lose. >> we haven't heard much from them. we'll see. thanks, jim. >> have a good day. coming up, we thought you might like to have a little comedy this morning so we will show you the jets. >> i am so glad that rex ryan, his confidence in mark sanchez paid off finally. >> standing by his man. >> he finally has a piece of pastry on his roster, a

turnover. >> how long you been waiting for that one? [ male announcer ] families grow up but some things never get old... marie callender's dutch apple pie with fresh fuji apples and a crust made from scratch... it makes home at the holidays even sweeter. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

you can stay in and share something... or you can get out there and actually share something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on. this is the pursuit of perfection.

well, the dream is over for new york jets fans. >> what. what? >> looks like they're not going to the playoffs. they're definitely not going to the playoffs. on the road last night in music city usa. in the fourth quarter, mark sanchez kind of logs one up into double coverage.

>> oh, my lord. >> michael griffin picks it up. that was the third interception of the night for sanchez. >> thank goodness the pain is over. >> things get worse from there. >> what! it's a close game. >> they're down only four points. look at this. into triple coverage. >> triple coverage. >> he has the narrative wrong. just excellent titans game. >> way to go, rex. way to go, rex. >> looks like they might not get the ball back. >> jets! >> we're going to get the ball back! >> we can do it. >> 25 yards to glory. >> this is -- last game of the season. the blind kid -- somethi kid -- something -- come on, he has a chance, right? >> they get one more chance. jets down four, one minute to go. mike tirico, take it away. >> jets at the 25. snap, kicked around, on the

ground! that's the way this game should end. that's the way the jets season should end. ugly, and a loss. >> four interceptions. that fumble by sanchez, that was a bad snap. the jets now officially eliminated from the playoffs. 14-10 loss. sanchez, five turnovers, 24 turnovers this season, the most in the nfl. >> let's keep the freeze on rex ryan for a second. i really like mark sanchez. he is a good guy, seems to be a good guy. we've had him here. you know, my problem, my beef is not with mark sanchez, it's with that guy right there, who destroyed the jets' season, his stubbornness. he single-handedly destroyed the jets' season this year and he should not return. he had a third string quarterback, willie, forget tebow, he had a third string quarterback he put in for one quarter that won the game. do you not think greg mcilroy

wouldn't have figured away to score a touchdown. >> wouldn't put in tebow all season. put in mcilroy, led him to a win. sanchez, four picks, 4.7 yards for completion. those are not nfl numbers. >> i think he's thrown more interceptions over this past year than, i think, in the je jets -- caught passes. >> must read opinion pages next. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again.

time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. start saving at citi.com/pricerewind.

in the "washington post," protecting the innocent. we have time for one must read. one way we try to beat down death with a stick is by turning helpless horror into a familiar cause. it's discrediting to any cause when advocates steal someone else's grief for their own

ideological use. in this case, the search for political implications of project is unavoidable. it's the primary purpose of government to protect the innocent from the evil. in fnewtown, connecticut, none could be more innocent, none could be more evil. this is not the threshold for government action. the relevant question is what policies could reasonably be argued to reduce the likelihood and severity of such incidents over time. okay. who wants to -- >> jon. >> i just wounder what the 43rd president makes of all of this. george w. bush has stayed quiet. the assault weapons ban expired during his pretty. i wonder with perspectirospecti distance and his post 2006 post

thumping views, i wonder what he -- whether he agrees or disagrees with his former speechwriter, mike ger sson. a great piece. >> what do you think? >> i agree. i'd like to hear from president bush on this. gerson is absolutely right. we have this tendency in this culture of ours to immediately grasp on i'd yo logically right and left to specifics of whatever debate is going on and use the emotion of moment to drive our side and we should be thinking about what we talked about earlier, what can be done now? what's possible right now, to improve this situation, to try to contain the spread of these assault weapons? it's beyond common sense they're in the hands of american citizens. what can be done right now? >> is there a need for gun czar or for former presidents to come together? >> no need for that. a need for congress to do their job. a need for conservative republicans and conservative

democrats to step up. people that grew up around guns, to do their job. i think george w. bush would be a great voice in this debate right now. >> what's the compassionate conservative stand on guns in 2012? that's a reasonable question. >> i think it's -- what's the reasonable rational stand? here's the thing. conservatism, william f. buckley conservatism has always been that you look at the realities that are before you. edmond burke, you look at the realities in front of you and you respond to them. william f. buckley in 2005, before he died, said of george w. bush's foreign policy despite earlier support of it, said, well, really, it ended up not being what it -- the reality coo look at the landscape before us

and make our decisions based upon that. and just as the events of 9/11 changed things, so too did this. it didn't change our constitutional rights to keep and bear arms. we have those rights. we will always have those rights. we will always have the right to hunt and always have the right to protect our families. but just like 9/11 required change, so does newtown require change. >> coming up a little later on the show, we will speak to new york city michael bloomberg and senator elect chris murphy of connecticut. be right back. [ both ] people loved our wedding slide show.

that is the end... of carousel one. ...of carousel one. there's carousel two! all right! [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty rotel tomatoes and green chiles, you'll get a bowl of queso that makes even this get-together better.

straight ahead, we're bringing you senator elect, chris murphy and tom brokaw and dan seymour and eugene robinson. back in just a moment. ♪

[ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we understand that commitment. and always have. so does aarp, an organization serving the needs of americans 50 and over for generations.

so it's no surprise millions have chosen an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help cover some of the expenses medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. to find out more, request your free decision guide. call or go online today. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long. ♪ don't know what i'd do ♪ i'd have nothing to prove [ male announcer ] zales is the diamond store. save 25 percent off

an amazing selection storewide, now through monday. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

i've been a long time supporter of second amendment rights. i believe every american has second amendment rights. the ability to hunt is part of our culture. i've had an nra rating of an a. but, you know, enough is enough. i'm father of three daughters and this weekend, they all said, dad, you know, how can this go on? i, like i think most of us, think there are ways to get to rational gun control. there won't be one perfect law to stop a crazy person from doing evil things. when we have close to 30,000 killings a year from all types of gun violence, even if we save a few lives, we make progress

and i can answer my daughters with a better answer than i gave them friday night. >> welcome back to "morning joe." at the table now nbc news, tom brokaw and also former foreign policy to the bush administration and romney campaign. dan senor and washington pulitzer prize, nbc political analyst, eugene robinson. i kid dan because i love him. dan, i'm just curious, wh what -- you're a conservative like me. i think you've probably been supportive of gun rights as me, supportive of the second amendment, have the same world view as me. i'm curious, how have things changed around your house? how have things changed in your mind since friday when it comes do this issue?

are you perhaps less of an absolutist like me than you were on friday? >> i think this touch es everybody not connected in different ways, particularly people with young kids, a whole new world. campbell called me friday, had gone early friday afternoon to pick up our kids from school. she told me around 1:00 p.m. all the mothers there picking up their kids were in tears. this idea, you send your kids to school and you just assume, sort of intuitively sending your kids to school is this safe place, this safe space. you don't have to think about it, once they're dropped off, in the hands of caring teachers. >> that was taken away friday. i know i rushed from work and had to fight and actually called the school, can i pick up my kids. they said, you know, everybody wants to pick up their kids. we're trying to keep a sense of normalcy around here. wait until their normal dismissal time. you were talking about last

night, movies with campbell and something happened at home and her saying, we've got to go. >> you just want to hug the kids all weekend, want to keep them under a roof. last night, we went out to see a movie. and about 20 minutes into the movie, the babysitter texts campbell and says eli, who's our 4-year-old turning 5 today actually, running through the apartme apartment, fell, banged his head, bumped his head, screaming really really loud, don't think it's serious, wanted to let you know. campbell said, we're out of here. i don't want to overstate these things. i do think there is this sense of over or perhaps appropriate protectiveness over our little ones, when we see -- we know little ones are vulnerable. like the president said the other night like your heart leifing yoleif ileif -- leaving your body and you have to watch your heart leaving the world. we know these things

intrinsically and shatters your world even if you weren't directly affected by it. >> let's go from personal to political and i want to go to tom and gene. you just went through a campaign you poured your heart and soul into. you believed that you were fighting the good fight, that you were being a champion of the right cause that you had the right man, that you thought you were going to win. and then you woke up the morning after the election, realizing that your party, my party, is dangerously out of touch with the voters that elect the presidents. that elect senators. that determine which direction this republic turns. how will an inappropriate response by our party to the

tragedies of newtown, the new realities of newtown, impact us moving forward as a party? i say this again, as a man that saw the republican party's biggest problems up close, with a new generation of voters? sn>> look, i don't know how it will affect the party. but as a -- public policy matter in the wake of last friday, you are reminded of a lot of things. one of is how perplexing this problem is. there's no easy solution. yesterday morning, you went through the range of things, the availability of weapons, the psychological issues, the influences in our culture, the sociological influences. there's no one solution. but i think, i would say to everyone, across the political spectrum, including and

especially those on the right, you got to kind of be at the table now and you've got to check your ideological baggage at the door. by the way, i'm not a second amendment absolutist any more than first amendment absolutist. we are going to have to reign in and address some of these rights or access to content or weapons or whatever it is in order to address this issue. if you can't check your absolutism at the door, you can't be at the table. you have to be at the table and part of the discussion. i want to make one important point. many of the people who have weapons and you grew up with it. my family and campbell's family from the south louisiana. we say, it's a big part of the culture, that's what we often say. it's a big part. it's more than that. we have friends and family down south, some of whom, women, who

live alone, who have guns. >> sure. >> and they have guns for personal safety reasons. they don't live in high density population areas. >> and they should. >> we need to draw them into this discussion and we shouldn't do that by demonizing it. >> can i ask you this, though, dan, because i think your point begs this question. how many single women who live alone in their 40s, 50s, 60s, protect themselves at night with a bushmaster? can i answer that question for you? none. a glock, 10 millimeter glock, can i answer that one for you? none. i only bring this up, not to point it at you, to say for all those people putting up false choices there somehow we have to choose as a country whether we allow single elderly women to protect themselves from intruders, or allow our children to be sprayed with a flurry of

bullets? by the way, look what happened in oregon, look what happened in colorado, look what happened in virginia. look what happened in a religious temple. look what happened in connecticut. we can't say these are random isolated events anymore. >> it's an epidemic. >> it's an epidemic and growing epidemic. i just wonder, dan, this is the last question to open it up for everybody else, come on, let's get real, buddy, what if mitt romney had an election a year from now? and he had to be the candidate that had to defend the right of americans to buy 10 millimeter glocks and bush masters and these these cartridges that allowed you to continue to spray bull bullets at 6 and 7-year-old children, or at moviegoers.

people shopping with their families at malls, how would he do in bucks county? how would he do in the i-4 corridor? how would he do in the suburbs? i don't mean to be crass to my fellow republican friends. a lot is riding on this. if you want to be the party that is willing to put your future on the line to defend the right of americans to possess these military style combat weapons instead of fighting for less taxes, balanced budgets, a rational foreign policy, have at it, but, dan, that's not the way forward for us. that is no longer the way forward. >> we can get into a discussion about which guns people need, which ones they don't. there are some 280 to 300

million guns in the u.s. market today, swirling around in the u.s. market. about 8 million conceal and carry permits. the numbers are only increasing. you and i can sit here and have a rational discussion about which guns people need and which ones don't. the reality is there is a lot of firepower out there, a lot of arms. all i'm simply saying, i saw on sunday mayor bloomberg on "meet the press." something made me uncomfortable with his interview. i have great admiration for him and a lot of the things he does. david brooks, who was on the roundtable afterward pinpointed it. if this discussion is going to work, you can't have big city urban mayors beating up people who live in rural or southern or midwestern parts of the country, that maybe these big city mayors aren't the best spokespersons for this cause, if you want to do what everyone just talked about, get everyone to the table. >> dan, we just said that a couple minutes ago, michael

bloomberg does a lot of great things, have great respect for hi him. >> i know being born in georgia, growing up in mississippi, he will push him further away. we need the joe manchins out there. >> i would like to bri bring -- actually, there's a complete connection between mayor bloomberg. no-no, there's not. >> you know where those guns that come into "new york timened kill people come from? gun shows in west virginia and we need everybody. it's not uncomfortable at all. >> mika, all i'm saying, if you want to actually win the debate, you're going to have to get people that grew up with shotguns in their house, that had this as a part of their culture to -- this is -- >> i agree. >> this is not a debate. >> let me ask tom brokaw, for a republican who is pro gun, is there any place, especially since we haven't heard from any come forward yet, that i know

of, by all accounts, is there any place for them to continue business as usual? >> well, what has been so striking to me is that the people who are so eager to be out front on the issue of gun ownership have now gone behind the screen. so many members of the congress and senate who are republicans and identified with the nra and gotten good grades, there have been some exceptions obviously, mark warner, we just saw on the air here. what strikes me about this overall -- by the way, i've lived in a gun culture since i was 10 years old, owned guns since i was 10 years old. i still probably have more than anybody around this table in a locked safe in montana. i've grown up with them. i remember a time, however, when everyone was really happy with the guns they had. all short shooting sportsman. they didn't need a bushmaster or glock. they had shotguns and high powered rifles for game hunting and taught their youngsters coming along how to use them safely and responsibly.

suddenly, in the last 20 years or so, we've gone to all these exotic weapons that can have magazines, that can fire off hundreds of rounds a minute. i fired the little colt commando that the special forces have. it was stunning to me how many rounds i could get off by just holding down the trigger in a matter of seconds. long range and short range as well. i think the country is responding in part because they feel there are so many things going on over which they know longer have control. this one, they feel the need to take control of. i believe that this will be a big idea in america, to use another example, we used to kind of turn our eyes away from drunk driving. it was kind of socially acceptable, until candy laettner came along and said, my teenage daughter was killed by a drunk driver, it shall no longer stand, she organized mothers against drunk driving and changed the landscape. >> changed everything. >> everything. the laws, the social responsibility, the way bars operate, designated drivers, it

all took place. this will succeed as a movement if it's from the ground up and across the country, urban and western and southern as well. no one is going to knock-down doors to take guns out of houses. if we get to that point, we have a lot bigger problem than just guns. that means we are in a country now ruled by anarchists. >> tom, you bring up mad jon meacham, as you watch historic shifts, these initiatives are to help shape our society and bring it forward and make it better. can we argue m.a.d. made our society better? i can. i think there is something happening here. it has to. >> let me ask tom, i don't know how many times, you've lost count, too, you opened your broadcast, with another bloody day in america. >> yeah. >> all over the country. the second, the third piece was about this debate.

what makes this different? >> a couple things make this different. i was in aurora, colorado windy. i was out there for personal reasons and drove through and thought it disappeared from the landscape except for the victims here and not part of the political discussion at all, democrats or republicans. four people were killed in a movie theater by a guy dressed exactly like this guy when he went into that schoolhouse. i think it was a combination of things, first of all, the victims, all the youngsters, everybody could identify with and their faces immediately. secondly, i think there was a build-up. after i got through with aurora, i actually e-mailed my colleagues at "meet the press" and said, i know you're doing big ideas this weekend. you have to add shooting to the list. we've been through aurora and oregon at a shopping center and betsy fisher said, that's a good idea, we have not included that. we will. the next morning this happened. i think there was an avalanche effect. it began to build up.

when this one hit and there were these kinds of youngsters and school principals running towards the shooter, that was a tipping point. i was in salt lake city over the weekend, big western state. everybody was grieving. there was no one on the air or in the newspapers saying, hey, i'm a westerner, i have my guns and i will hang on to them. this is a big, big reflective moment for the country. it is, as dan says, very complex. we have to understand that going in. this country is at its best when it has big ideas. >> it is complex. we said repeatedly talking more about guns. also about this violent culture, about mental health challenges. you know, it's also -- it's not just because it happened in our proximity, it has nothing to do with geographic proximity. i know one or two people on the far right suggested, that's why i was shaken by this, has nothing to do with proximity.

it has everything to do with leaning over and kissing your 4-year-old boy on his head. you know, on friday, every time i walked past jack, i just stop and i just move my hands through his hair and i hugged him. same thing with kate. >> here's another one. >> it has nothing to do with geography, everything to do as parent. >> we're stunned in this country when a shiite puts on a suicide belt and goes a sunni mosque and blows himself up and worshippers up. we find that the most bar baric behavior. we've been looking at that in the middle east. and yet what is supposed to be the rule of law and civilized society, we have had one episode after another and we have turned our eyes away from it. the fact of the matter is, before obama took office, the nra was spreading the word he was going to confiscate

ammunition in america. my friends in montana called me and said, how much do you want me to buy for you? we're caching it out here. about three months ago, wayne said he was waiting for his second term to do this. there was a big run on ammunition and weapons. >> by the way, since this has happened, gun ownership has exploded? yeah. >> there is that fear. again, it's -- it's disturbing, but it has again nothing to do with geography, it has to do with parents and we're not going to -- as parents, we're not going to take this argument anymore, that there's nothing we can do about it. >> no. >> we just have to accept it. >> there are a lot of great perspective perspectives at this table. you point out you're a gun owner. my family, they're gun owners. i will probably be eating wild game for christmas. it's just important given the fact we don't have a lot of

republicans coming on right now, but we do have -- >> we have one in washington. >> a diverse perspective. >> gene robinson, are you not -- >> the "washington post." >> not yet, joe. >> gene -- you know, gene is a lowercase r republican. >> that's right. exactly. >> a lincoln republican. >> you write in the "washington post," if you buy a gun for protection, gene, you say it will probably never be fired in anger and no chance you will use it to defend yourself against an intruder. much more likely than the home invasion scenario is you use the weapon on yourself or someone you know or someone in the household will use it on himself or perhaps on you and some right wing commentators responded to newtown by calling for principals, teachers and security guards to be armed is beyond obscene and beneath contempt. more guns with amateurs firing every which way surely would have meant more dead children

and grieving families. gene. >> it would have. i think, look, we all know freedom isn't freedom. we pay a high price for our freedoms. this is too high a price for absolute freedom under the second amendment. we can't have our innocent children slaughtered in that horrific way. we need to look at the whole issue, the psychological dimension, sociological dimension. but there's the gun dimension. that, you know, just because we can't do it all at once doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can. what we can do is a sensible assault weapons ban. that seems like -- should be a no brainer right now. i think there can be a consensus for that. we should also tell people the truth about guns. i know that gun ownership makes a lot of people feel safe and

that's understandable. but look at the numbers. look at what guns actually are used for. it is far too often the case, and tragically the case, that the handy availability of a gun escalates a situation that, in another time and place, would have been a fistfight or an altercation of some sort, and escalates it into a deadly situation. a lot of people who have severe depression have a gun around and the result is suicide. so guns don't always make you safe. sometimes it's dangerous to have them around. it's certainly dangerous for some people to have them around. we need to look that square squarely -- look at that squarely, rather than talk around it. >> dan. >> gene, i agreed with some of

what you wrote, not all of it. but i -- one thing you talked about is how dangerous is would be to start getting the business of making sure school officials are armed, making sure there's more arms and training around our schools. look, i think for this discussion, not just at this table but generally the country will have -- everyone has to check all their stuff, if you will, ideological stuff, not that yours is ideological at the door and deal with everything. we deal with mental health communities an important part of this, how we deal with the supply of guns. on this issue of conceal and carry -- >> how we protect our schools. >> conceal and carry, jeffrey goldberg from the atlantic, a center left guy, by no means a defender of the nra, after aurora, did a very long piece in "the atlantic" called the case for more guns and more gun

control. he actually does a lot of research here. he went to aurora, traveled around the country and did a lot of research on communities where there are a high number of conceal and carry permits. the people who have those permits tend to be the most trained, the most vetted, the most law abiding population. in fact, they, in many cases, according to law enforcement, in certain communities, have stopped mass shootings from becoming mass shootings. so, again, i'm not endorsing this view, i'm simply saying, there's a lot out there. i think we need to look at all of this. >> dan, we should look at that, absolutely. the data point that comes back to me is the shootings outside the empire state building in new york just a few months ago, where a guy starts shooting, police officers respond, and try to take the guy down and end up shooting like nine bystanders and injuring nine bystanders.

these are the best shooters we've got who are proficient in firearms, required to shoot regularly and ended up wounding a bunch of bystanders. we need to look at that, too. i am skeptical, but we should look, you know, if conceal-carry makes the community savefer, i guess we should do it. i doubt that it does. >> thank you. we'll be reading your column in today a today's "washington post." stay with us. mayor michael bloomberg will be with us and senator elect chris murphy of connecticut. our next guest wrote the "time" magazine cover story over the shootings over the summer. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

live look at the sunrise. >> what a beautiful sunrise. >> joining us now from capitol

hill, we have democratic senator elect and congressman from connecticut, representative chris murphy. here on set, political columnist for "time" magazine, joe klein. senator elect murphy, your current district includes newtown. we'll start there. you know the area well. there is a culture that accepts gun ownership perhaps areas. do you think something meaningful, as you hear voices in washington talking about this behind the scenes and over the public air waves will come of this? >> i think it has to. i was at a church service sunday morning at a congressional church in newtown. i can't tell you the number of people who grabbed my arm as i was walking out and said, make sure that this doesn't happen again. i think right now in newtown, this is still a town full of grief, frankly, a town figuring out how to process this. you're beginning to see people in town beginning to take the

president's charge he left us with on sunday evening to say, listen, let's make sure this doesn't happen again. i do think you will see people spilling out from newtown to talk about a variety of things. i know guns are probably the most immediately relevant. this guy got off 100 rounds while only having to change his cartridge two times because he was using 30 round clips at a time. but we're also going to need to have a conversation about the culture of violence that leads somebody to do this, inability for families to grapple with increasingly complex mental illness. people in newtown know there's no one easy answer to try and decrease the likelihood of what happened. they will be ready sometime soon for that conversation. it's not going to be until the funerals are over. >> before we open it up to the panel, give me a sense of how the community is coping, and if it has the support it needs, it's sort of hard to figure out

what kind of tangible support you can offer at a time like this. chances are they will need a lot of help. >> yeah. there's a feeling of helplessness a little bit. i was on the ground a little after the shooting and there essentially nonstop until i came back to caught yesterday. right now the community has everything it needs. every single family has a state police officer assigned to them, an overabundance of counselors on the ground. the question is what happens two, three, four, five weeks after this? and we don't want what happened at oaurora and newtown will nee support and some people aren't grieving yet. at little noah pozner's funeral jed, his twin sister and best friend, ariel clearly hadn't come to understand she had lost her brothers and she and frankly thousands of people in that town, their grief isn't going to start for another couple weeks when the lights go away and the

busyness business of dealing with the grief ends. we have everything we need right now and we can safely say newtown has everything it needs. >> senator chris murphy, thaw for coming and we know you have to go. >> you wrote about aurora, in the wake of aurora, about how the gun won, the cover story for "time" magazine. below does the story go from here? >> i think the gun control piece is easy, in many ways, the easiest piece of it. the shooter had a choice of weapons. he did not take the deer hunting rifles to do a massacre, took the semi-automatics. that seems to me the bright line in the gun debate. semi-automatic assault weapons, we have to get rid of those.

but we're avoiding -- by focusing so much on guns, we're avoiding what is the most important piece of this. it's this. in each of thoese recent shootings, certainly in this one, the boy's mother was desperately trying to get help from the system and couldn't get it. travis lockner nlochner in tuc been identified as deeply troubled and might do something drastic. the kid in aurora, same thing. all across the country, right now, there are parents of children who have deep psychological problems, who are worried their kid is going to be next. the question is, how do we rejigger the system so that they get support and where do we draw the line when it comes to making sure that these -- that people who have these sorts of problems are in a secure setting?

i mean, for parents who have kids over the age of 18, they have absolutely no control at all about, you know, getting them into a secure setting and they are desperately frightened. i know people like this. >> this is a really complicated issue. it requires a whole systemic re-thinking. the issues you're talking about. if you're a psychologist, child psychologist and you're working with a child, young person, you discover some of the attributes you've described, there are limitations based on privacy rules and laws that prevent you from contacting the school and telling the school's teacher or principal, i'm worried here, i have something to be concerned about. you actually can't transmit that information. you start to think about, this is not just a seconds amendment issue, first amendment issues, privacy issues, a whole range of issues once you want to get into dealing with mental health challenges. >> the same is true on background checks. a lot of times you can't get the

information you need if you're a dealer and you dial because the system is dense and it's extraordinarily uneven. >> and out of date. >> and somebody that goes in, the virginia tech shooter was a guy able to go in and was able to buy what he needed to buy. >> 50 years ago, these sorts of people ended up in mental hospitals. we closed down the mental hospitals and that was a good thing. the second part of that deal was we were supposed to start opening up residential facilities for people with severe psychological problems, halfway houses and nobody wanted them in their neighborhood. >> nope. >> so we have advocated our responsibility to the mentally ill. and that is a conversation, in my mind, every bit as important. >> absolutely. >> even more important than the gun control conversation, because we had an assault weapons ban for ten years and while i'm totally in favor of it, the results were minimal. >> okay. let me ask a question as we go to break. quick, for each of you.

equally as important, gun control or changes in enforcement and mental health, correct? >> right. >> there's also something else a piece of this. >> that's what i was wondering. >> that is the culture of violence. the whole idea that we are a violent nation and we look at things on youtube, we access it easily on any laptop we have. >> de sentises the society. >> the pornography of violence has become a part of the fabric of american life. >> those people who promulgate those sorts of movies and video games should have the same degree of respect in society we give pornographers. they should be shunned. >> that's a conversation we can break out later. thank you so much. member of the wall street editorial board, steven moore joins us. keep it right here on "morning joe." at optionsxpress we're all about options trading.

we create easy to use, powerful trading tools for all. look at these streaming charts! they're totally customizable and they let you visualize what might happen next. that's genius! strategies, chains, positions. we put 'em all on one screen! could we make placing a trade any easier? mmmm...could we? open an account today and get a free 13-month e ibd™ subscription when you call 1-888-280-0157 now. optionsxpress by charles schwab.

39 past the hour. the second longest serving senator in u.s. history, democrat daniel en inoue died yesterday from respiratory complications. president obama praised the world war ii medal of honor

recipient as an american hero. you had insights. >> his family had been in hawaii since the late 1800s and pearl harbor happened and dan rushed down to the harbor to treat his fellow americans with the training he got in first-aid and then when we were sending japanese americans to internment camps he volunteered for the 42ed. when he was on the dock leaving for war, his father said to him, this country has been very good to your family. you may have to die for this country and it will be a great honor for your family. he ends up saving the national guard unit, losing his arm, getting medal of honor eventually, get back to america, in a hospital room recuperating with guess who? bob doyle and phil hart, his roommates, two of the most distinguished senators in american history. they became fast friends and decided they wanted to devote their life to public service and

all went home and ran for the senate and got there, one republican and two democrats. his last word before he died, aloha. we have to pay homage to him. >> we'll be right back. ♪

i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios that was me... the day i learned i had to start insulin for my type 2 diabetes. me... thinking my only option was the vial and syringe dad used. and me... discovering once-daily levemir® flexpen. flexpen® is prefilled. doesn't need refrigeration for up to 42 days. no drawing from a vial. dial the exact dose.

inject by pushing a button. flexpen® is insulin delivery... my way. levemir® (insulin detemir [rdna origin] injection) is a long-acting insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes and is not recommended to treat diabetic ketoacidosis. do not use levemir® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause symptoms such as sweating, shakiness, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be serious and life threatening. ask your healthcare provider about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. other possible side effects include injection site reactions. tell your healthcare provider about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions, such as body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat, or sweating. with flexpen®... say good night to vial and syringe. ask your doctor about levemir® flexpen. covered by 90% of insurance plans, including medicare. find your co-pay at myflexpen.com.

try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. 45 past the hour. there are no signs that the fiscal cliff negotiatio negotiations -- there are new signs that the fiscal cliff negotiations are picking up. this morning, speaker boehner is expected to meet with house republicans to share latest details with president obama. the president delivered a counter proposal offering to raise tax rates on households

making more than $400,000 a year. to talk about this and his new book, senior writer of the wall street editorial page, stephen moore. he's out with a new book "who's the fairest of them all. the truth about opportunity, taxes and wealth in america." first of all, fiscal cliff, are you hopeful and does it sound like what they're close to might be fair? >> it depends on -- this is such a moving target in terms of what the final negotiations will be. i always predicted near midnight december 24 or december 31 they will reach a deal. the question is whether it will be something good for the economy and something i had in my book, does it really make sense to be raising tax rates when we have a high unemployment rate. one of the point i make in the book the fairest system of them all would be a flat tax, something steve forbes talks about in the 1990s keeps rates low and broadens the base and

makes everybody pay their fair share. >> let's go to the book, in fairness, one of the arguments you make is that the president wants to make everybody poor. is that fair? >> well, i don't know if he wants to make everyone poor but -- >> equally poor. >> let me put it like this. a good tax system tries to make poor people rich, it doesn't try to make rich people poor and sometimes i think the president gets that confused. a lot of this talk about raising tax rates. look, we know from history raising tax rates isn't going to raise much revenues. over the last hundred years, i document this in the book, every time we cut tax rates in the 'twen '20s and '60s and '80s we increase revenues. i'm pointing out this isn't an effective way to raise revenues if we are going to do that. understand the concept. do you recognize there are some disparities out of whack at this point. >> what do you mean by disparities? >> economic disparities in our

society. the vast vast gap between the ultra rich and the very very poor. >> there is a gap. >> and massive bonuses and people running away with millions if not billions of dollars and maybe not paying their fair share of taxes. >> here's the point. you're exactly making the point in my book. what we need to do is raise the income levels of lower income people. to tear down the rich isn't a way to do that. what i want to see is a fair society that gives everyone an equal chance to succeed in this economy. i don't want to spoil the ending of the book. the fairest system of them all is the free enterprise system that creates the most jobs and most wealth and most opportunity. what we want is an opportunity society in this country. that means we have to fix the schools and we have to do a lot of things to provide people who grew up with lower income backgrounds a chance to succeed. >> steve, if you look at where we sit today and you go north, all the way up to somewhere in the 80s, 85th or 90th street in

manhattan. i've heard, read about 3,000 families in that area, from where we are through midtown are responsible for about 30% of new york city's municipal budget. >> amazing. >> disproportionately high percentage of our revenue from a small pool of people. >> you're exactly right. >> when people say taxes have become too onerous, too tough, they leave. actually, when you're that dependent on 3,000 family, 10, 50, 100 families leaving matters. >> that's a great point. >> when we say taxing the behavior -- people say behavior is not really affected by increasing taxes. people aren't going to leave. if they leave, it won't matter that much. it does matter. >> it's a really great point. i talk about this in the book. if you think high tax rates are a solution to our budget problem, somebody out there please explain to me why the three entities other than the federal government most in financial trouble right now,

california and new york and my home state of illinois, they have the highest tax rates. california is a perfect example. i just flew back from california yesterday. it has a 13.3% tax rate. you can move to colorado and nevada and texas and pay zero? you don't think that has an impact. california day after day is losing its job creators and its businesses. what i say in the book, look, what we ought to do is make america look more like to do is make them look more like texas where all the jobs are, not more like new york and california where people are living. >> steven moore, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. coming up, one of the most vocal proponents for legislation, michael bloomberg will be right here. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] families grow up but some things never get old... marie callender's dutch apple pie with fresh fuji apples and a crust made from scratch...

it makes home at the holidays even sweeter. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

it was a tra maltic experience. we're very happy to be here. we're in good health. they kept us blindfolded, bound. we weren't physically beaten or tortured. it was a lot of psychological tortu torture. they made us choose which one of us would be shot first and when we refused, there were mock shootings. they pretended to shoot ghazi several times when you were blindfolded and then they fired the gun up in the air.

>> that was nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engle speaking on the "today" show this morning just hours after being freed from syria where he was kidnapped and held captive for five days. engle went on to say that he and his crew were freed following a gun fight between his canter and rebel forces. we are so, so, so grateful to have him back in safe arms. >> indeed. >> indeed. >> we minded of these reporters in war zones and the risks they take. >> and it's all different now in a war zone. there are no front lines. >> right. >> no uniforms. >> exactly. >> all different. you guys have sebastian on the line and listening to his testimony, you're just reminded. anthony shadeed. these guys are heroes. >> yes, they are. up next, newtown, connecticut, begins to lay to rest the 20 children killed in friday's

school shooting as more lawmakers call for stricter gun regulations. we'll discuss all this straight ahead on "morning swroe." meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. how much is your current phone bill? four sixteen seventy six a month! okay, come with me -- we're gonna save you money. with straight talk at walmart,

you get unlimited talk, text and data for only $45 a month per phone. would we get the same coverage? same coverage on america's best networks. you saved $146.76 by switching to straight talk. awesome! now you can afford to share your allowance with me. get the season's hottest smartphones like the samsung galaxy s2 and get straight talk with unlimited data for just $45 a month -- from america's gift headquarters. walmart. ♪ from america's gift headquarters. walmart. until i had the shingles. i have never encountered such a burning sensation... it was like a red rash. like somebody had set a bag of hot charcoal on my neck. i had no idea it came from chickenpox. it's something you never want to encounter. for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com

share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. shareable data across 10 devices with unlimited talk and text. hurry in for a droid incredible 4g lte by htc for $49.99. since 1994, there have been 70 -- and these are just school

shootings. there have been 70 episodes of school shootings in the united states. since 1994. after the brady bill was passed. president obama was in connecticut last night speaking to a high school gymnasium as part of a memorial service. and he said some things, no single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society, but that can't be an excuse for inaction. so right there, i feel better. it can't be an excuse for inaction. that means he is committed, he is going on the record for some kind of action. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. time to wake up. back with us on set, we have mike barnacle and john meachum. >> that was fascinating. >> that was. that was dead serious. he was not feeling anything else at that point, i think. >> i'll tell you, yesterday really did touch americans in a

way with this whole weekend. and the president's speech and people like joe madison stepping forward really, i think it's got americans talking for the first time on this issue. and in a surprising way. i was struck not by how many democrats or liberals called after the show and said, boy, we really like what you guys did and the administration was needed. i was struck by how many members of the lifetime nra who went out hunting across northwest florida and alabama and florida.

john meachum, you were raised in similar culture, but wearing white gloves. but i was struck that the most passionate people that said what you always want to hear, thank you for saying what i wanted to say. thank you for putting it into words. they were my friends from first baptist church. they were hunters. they were people that said, i'm not going to have somebody -- you know, i'm not going to have -- have extremists take my rights to keep and bear arms, protect my family, and go hunting with my kids. >> i think that's the key word. i think that gun owners who think this through realize that the second amendment culture has been captured by extremists

since before -- but i think the marker is in 1994, the phrase jack booted thugs, remember it was used about the atf. and people like george h.w. bush and george schwarzkopf and others resigned from the nra. and i think that with every horrible act that happened, it's taken too long, but the story of the country in many ways is of coming to a consciousness that is overdue. >> and let's talk, mika, about the financial incentives. >> yeah. >> of the gun trade. they're out there, as well. this is not just about politics, not just about liberty, it's about a lot of money, too. >> yeah. but there's a shift in attitude. as the "new york times" puts in

their headlines. i don't know how long anyone -- and there's several networks that were having trouble finding pro gun advocates to speak out because there's really nothing to say at this point. i think -- can you think of anything in your political career where something has happened and you realize you just can't? >> 9/11. >> there you go. >> 9/11 happened and there were a lot of conservatives after 9/11, very weary, very suspicious of federal government expansi expansion, expansion of powers and i'm one of them that afterwards you're like, okay, if the tsa wants to be intrusive, let's be intrusive. if we have to do things that make me uncomfortable as a small government conservative, fine. >> that's a great example. >> this is a domestic version of 9/11. where everything changed. >> everything did change. one thing joe mentioned yesterday after he talked about

his transformation and the way he thinks about guns and gun rights was that the president needs to move quickly on this if they're going to do something significant. he's talking about in the next week, the next couple of weeks before unfortunately this moment to some degree will pass. it will move out of the news cycle a little bit. we won't focus on it as much as we are. joe manchin, he's not alone, said if we're going to do something significant, something lasting, it has to happen very quickly and the president has to show leadership on that. so we'll see. the president put out in his speech in newtown the other night, he put out the idea, the concept of something has to give. now he has to push hard on it if he wants a change. >> and it needs to be comprehensive. mike, i know you've been talking about guns for a special long time. it needs to be comprehensivd in that i brought up yesterday. it's so fascinating. very few criticisms. almost none from the right of what we said yesterday.

a couple critiques from the far left saying, you know, i didn't get how dare you talk about infringing on our second amendment rights. i actually got some leftists going how dare he talk about infringing on first amendment rights. put the mirror up, man. we're all going to have to meet in the middle here. to save our children. leftists, extreme right wingers, everybody is going to have to realize that the old rules don't apply any more. but quinton teratino said something extraordinary yesterday. here is a guy that made millions of millions of millions of dollars producing the most violent movies imaginable that he settles to teenage boys, for the most part. he's going, oh, these things happen. i'm not going to cancel anything or still going to promote this. i think harvey stepped in and said, actually, you are. we are going to cancel some of this stuff.

but, you know, everybody is going to have to give. everybody is going to have to realize that there are extreme ideologies and a whole way of thinking. >> no matter what happens as we progress, we're always going to have the fringe. the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right. but this is one of those unique events, i would submit, where as in life, it will happen in politics where emotion will pull the logic train. and the emotion of what happened in newtown, connecticut, the emotion contained in the week of funerals where are the front of a church or a synagogue or a mosque, there will be very small caskets. and, t.j., if we still have it, the picture of jack pinto who was buried yesterday in newtown, connecticut, that right there is what is going to change the dialogue in this.

people carry around for years pictures of their children in little league uniforms, hockey uniforms, grade school, first, second grade pictures, that's the picture. that's the emotion that will pull this thing. >> well, if it doesn't, there's a serious problem. i understand the president does -- has a lot to do. when it comes to making sure that our economy doesn't fall off the cliff or tens of millions of working americans know that the fiscal cliff situation needs to be addressed. but isn't human nature funny, though? >> but we need to get moving on this. >> about those critical issues that you just mentioned. they seemed so insignificant. >> if they can't figure that out, they're -- >> well, i think that's one of the reasons. i don't know. i can't say i think that's one of the reasons why the president moved, why john boehner moved. they're moving together. they've got the outline. >> it would look ridiculous at

this point in light of everything. >> yeah. but they need to get this taken care of. >> but then the president does, as david letterman was saying, the president needs to do something and my friends in the republican party need to do something and i know they will. i really believe they're going to listen, john meachum, to the friends in their church that say, enough is enough. protect our children. >> yeah. i keep thinking about bloody sunday through the voting rights act in march, march to august of '65 where john lewis and isaiah williams are nearly beaten to death, that film from that is in a news break as abc is showing "judgment at nuremberg." suddenly people realize there is still people getting beat in the

united states for civil rights. and john went to congress that week and by august, the bill was signed. it requires that kind of presidential leadership to harness the emotions. >> so let's take it to newtown, connecticut, which is a community that is attempting to move forward after the events that killed 20 children and six adults. classes resume today in several schools with dashls security. the town will also say its final good-byes to 6-year-old jessica rekos. three additional wake services are also being held today. yesterday, funeral services were held as barn kal mentioned one of them, 6-year-old noah pozner and jack pinto. pinto's family vowed to celebrate jack's life remembering, quote, the gift that we were given and will forever cherish. several other services are planned throughout the week, including two private funerals, including one for sandy hook elementary principal dawn

hochsprung who was killed after she confronted the killer, adam lanza. and investigator res hoping a hard drive from his computer will provide more information about the tragic shooting. that drive, however, was apparently removed from the computer and severely damaged by the shooter. so far, police have been unsuccessful in their attempts to retrieve any of the drive's data. officials are also reporting the guns used in the massacre were purchased legally by his mother, nancy lanza. authorities verified that she and her son had visited local shooting ranges. which i don't get. i'm sorry. >> we have to be very careful. >> i will be very careful. >> i'm just saying, we have to be very careful. i do not understand. >> i don't get it. >> by all accounts, i don't understand this part of the story. >> he was a challenged child that needed support. >> i don't understand this part of the story.

>> actually, my husband covered the story yesterday, that exact angle, why she had guns, why she went with him, what that was about. >> jim is an investigative reporter at abc. >> a couple of people came to her defense. >> what did he conclude? >> it's just a question, why would you have those guns? you can have them legally and if you have a child that is challenging that perhaps has a disorder of some sort, by all accounts he had asperger's or something else, just what was the connection? >> there was a light also connected. it wasn't, obviously, we -- >> apparently she took him to the shooting range. >> right. i'm just saying on the asperger's front, there are a

lot of children that don't present problems, but this child presented obvious challenges for a very long time. i'm curious, was there an answer as to why she collected -- >> she is a gun enthusiast and according to people in the area, that is something that is quite popular there. there is a shooting range nearby. there's obviously the foundation that supports gun owners about three miles from the school. so it's part of the culturculture and certainly that should be taken into consideration. certainly there is no data that links asperger's to violence. look, i'm a parent and i wouldn't want guns in my house. i just wouldn't. i'd be too nervous about it. so i don't understand how that can happen. and i'm going to say that. i don't have a problem saying that. >> and you can say that ago somebody -- >> it might be judgmental. i grew up around guns and they

made me very nervous. >> and your family had guns. >> family of hunters. my brothers hunt. i usually come home to a pickup truck with a deer in the back when i go home from christmas. so from my perspective, which is completely separate from the gun cultu culture, it doesn't make any sense to me. and, of course, it's easy to say that in retrospect, but it doesn't make any sense. >> we don't know the whole story there. we may never because they're beau both deceased. but the reason you go to the gun range is to teach them how to use guns safely, operate them, respect them and use them safely. but that doesn't answer the question of whether or not she should have had them in the house at all after w a child like that. >> a glock. >> we're never going to know. >> when we come back, new york city mayor michael bloomberg has it on set. and today, we'll reveal who is on the list of finalists for

the person of the year. but first, bill carin with a check of the forecast. >> we have two big storms to talk about. one is existing new england as i speak and the other one is heading through the midwest as a major snowstorm. we had the rain early, the green on the map through central and northern new england. the white on the map shows you where the snow is. mostly only the highest of elevations in new hampshire, upstate new york and maine. so the forecast today, on and off periods of rain from buffalo to syracuse and shallow weather albany to boston. we should be dry. enjoy the warm weather while it lasts. all the way to the west coast, it's been snowing on and off in areas of oregon. traveling early on i-5 and any hilly areas, there's some snow in areas that don't get hugely a lot of it. that is the snowstorm that's going to move across the country. this is the snow map. it looks like the highest totals will be found as we go throughout nebraska and iowa. that's wednesday night into thursday morning.

i'm guessing thursday a lot of kids won't have school probably in iowa and wisconsin. this will be a significant snowstorm for you. the rest of the country today, enjoy just a beautiful tuesday there from dallas through the deep south and the southeast is looking very nice today, too. st. louis, no complaints whatsoever. partly cloudy skies. nice, clear start to your morning. enjoy. you're watching "morning joe" approved by starbucks. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 this morning, i'm going to trade in hong kong.

tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 after that, it's on to germany. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 then tonight, i'm trading 9500 miles away in japan. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with the new global account from schwab, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i hunt down opportunities around the world tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 as if i'm right there. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and i'm in total control because i can trade tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 directly online in 12 markets in their local currencies. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i use their global research to get an edge. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 their equity ratings show me how schwab tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 rates specific foreign stocks tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 based on things like fundamentals, momentum and risk. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and i also have access to independent tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 firms like ned davis research tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and economist intelligence unit. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 plus, i can talk to their global specialists 24/7. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and trade in my global account commission-free tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 through march 2013. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 best part... no jet lag.

tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 call 1-866-294-5409 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and a global specialist tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 will help you get started today.

i've been a long time supporter of second amendment rights. i believe every american has second amendment rights and the ability to hunt is part of our culture. i've had an nra rating of an a. but, you know, enough is enough. my -- i've got -- i'm the father ooh three daughters. weekend, they all said, dad, how can this go on? and i, like i think most of us, realize that there are ways to get to rationale gun control. and there won't be one perfect law that's going to stop a crazy person from doing evil things. but when we have close to 30,000, you know, killings a year from all types of gun violence, even if we save a few lives, we make progress. and i can answer my daughters with a better answer than i gave them on friday night. >> 20 past the hour.

here we say with us now is the mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg. mayor bloomberg is the cochair of mayors against illegal guns. you've been outspoken since the news of newtown broke. >> well, we've been outspoken for a long time. we started this organization three or four years ago and have over 700 mayors and it was fascinating. right after friday, we got calles from a dozen mayors from reasonably conservative parts of the country that we could not recruit into this group. they called us and said, we want to join. >> okay. so let's talk about what's reasonable and what's possible in the coming months. because i think there's pretty widespread agreement that something has to be done. >> well, we always have agreements that something has to be done. that's a cover for nothing. >> you tell us. >> number one, it's the president's job to promote a plan that satisfies the needs of the country. he is the commander in chief. he's the consoler in chief, but

he's the commander in chief. and whether the legislation that he proposes gets passed or not, that's not -- that shouldn't be his first consideration. i'm not unsympathetic to the realities of getting things done through congress. i'm not unsimplic to the fact that the press calls an elected official a failure if their legislation doesn't get passed. but you have to stop and think about what's the difference between a legislator and an executive? a legislator's job is to sort of split the baby. you give everybody some things, the vast majority get near the center. those who are more extreme get singled out but everybody gets something. that's not an executive's job. an executive says, this is what we're going to do and convinces people to come along, leads from the front, not from the back. the president has spoken out eloquently on the need to do something. he did that two years ago. what i said yesterday was in the two years since then, 41,000

americans have been killed with guns and we've done nothing. the only two pieces of legislation that have been signed, one gives us the right to carry and the right to carry guns on amtrak to stop a string of train robberies, which the last time i heard was in 1800 and something. >> go ahead and then i have a follow-up. >> what do you think is possible today, right now, at this moment? well, two things. number one, what the president can do is possible, there are some things he can do. we have not had a director of alcohol, tobacco and fire for six years. excuse me. he would say, well, congress won't approve it. won't approve my nominees. but you have recess appointments. if you want to get somebody in, there are ways to do that.

you can have a temporary -- there are a bunch of ways around that. if you don't have somebody running an organization, it can't do anything. he can tell his prosecutor to prosecute the cases of those who are caught lying on their application where they have a criminal record and say they don't. there's something like 71 ,000 people that have lied in the last few years. they've prosecuted 77. let's than 0.1 of 1%. the president can go after rogue gun dealers. guns go from one place to another. our coalition paid for sing operations like private security guys going in and saying, i want to buy a gun, but is there a background check because i couldn't pass one. and the gun dealer sells you a gun, that's against the law. we as a group of mayors aren't supposed to be doing this. the federal government should be doing this. lastly, there is something called tiart amendment.

tieart was a congressman from wichita, as i remember. he got an amendment passed which is still on the books which prohibits the federal government from sharing gun data of telling the public what is going on in this can you know. he incidentally resigned from congress or didn't bother to run for re-election. ran for governor and the voters of his state rejected him. but those are the things the president can do. then when you come to congress, i don't know what passes, but i sure know if you don't introduce real legislation, it doesn't get done. and this time, if the legislation isn't so clear that every american can understand it, i'm going to make and try to get as many people as i can to make a big if you happen fuss. you take a look at the legislation in new york state where we have very tough gun laws, new york city has the lowest crime rate, murder rate of any major city by a lot.

we have tough gun laws, we've got the loophole here. but if you read the state law, we can't figure out whether this gun that the connect in connecticut held was or was not an assault weapon based on law. why is that there? >> i'm thinking the one on the right is an assault weapon. that's just a gut -- >> it looks to me. but the question is under our law is it an assault weapon? you can, for example, buy the it without some things that make it an assault weapon, but you can buy those things separately and plug them in. >> the "new york times" front page headlines talks about a shift in attitude. we've been talking about a lot of the pro gun republicans of the past couple of days not coming forward, not wanting to talk right now on this issue. i think that's telling. and there needs to be a shift in attitude and i think there will be.

here is another positive sign or at least a sign of something. andrew ross sorkin as a piece on how all the major companies have a tie to wall street. they make the rifle that was used in the mass occur. they announced that they will sell their investment. they're shocked and deeply saddened by the events that took place. >> i would argue they should have stopped before they did that. i think people that invest in tobacco stocks that are going to kill a billion people this century where the companies target their product at every single doctor will tell you kills people, will target it to the poor, the uneducated and children, you should know that and you should knnot own stocksn gun companies. i don't have a problem with the second amendment that gives them the protection, but the second amendment has some reasonable restricts as the supreme court

has ruled. and if you listen to the nra, there is the u.s. army has a rifle. they call it a rifle. it's what i would call a cannon, it's attached to the front of a tank or a moving vehicle. it shoots a nuclear warhead. the nra would say, oh, that's a gun and people have a right to have that. where is the limit here? when you have armor-piercing bullets, they sell and advertise armor-piercing bulettes. who would buy an armor piercing bulette? not if you want to kill a deer. deer don't wear bullet proof vests. only if you want to kill a cop. those are the only ones i know who wear armored bullet resistant vets. here we are allowing people to sell and advertise, buy this bullet, you can kill a cop. this is not dealing with the second amendment. this is just ridiculous and it's time for the public to stand up. i was pleased, i read joe's

thing here in "the daily news." i was thrilled about that. and mark warner, joe manchion, nra rated as, they have said, enough is enough. and enough is enough. and somebody said to me, well, it's a republican issue. let me tell you it's not a republican issue. if i remember my history, the first two years of the last obama administration, congress -- and the senate and the white house were all in the hands of the democrats and they did nothing. so stymie that it's only the democrats. >> talk about what mayors can do because you have a diverse coalition and you have a different sensibility in many ways than legislators. >> well, we have to get the mayors to come together and start having a political influence. it's not enough for the mayors to say, i'm opposed to guns. i remember getting a call from a guy, he was the mayor of a north

florida good size city. very conservative. called up and said he wants to join the mayor's coalition. and i said, love to have you, but you're going to get massacred at home. he said our murder rate is such, i'm going to get massacred if i don't do something. he incidentally was re-elected two years later. i don't know what happened to their murder rate. but if you have restrictions and regulations that makes some sense, you at least reduce the probability of a disaster taking place. 34 people every day, this terrible tragedy in connecticut, aurora, you know, virginia tech. you go right down the list. these things keep happening and they will keep happening. and then i heard the governor of texas today, wants every teacher to have a gun. there are lots of states where they want to give college kids the right to carry on campus. i don't know what you guys did in college, but i shouldn't have had a gun when i was in college. >> no. and here is what -- and i know

you've heard this, mr. mayor. the "new york times" said on meet the press, challenging you a little bit. take a listen. >> one of the problems with this debate is values or it's perceived as urban versus rural. and frankly, it's perceived as an attack on the lifestyle of urban peel by rural people. there is probably no mayor i agree with more than mayor bloomberg, but it's counterproductive to have him leading that cause. there have to be more people from rural america who are participants in this. >> so that was echoed on our show this morning. a lot of these rural area have gun shows and people go to those gun showes and bring those guns back to new york city. and you can trace them and you have. >> most of the guns we get when we arrest somebody were sold in another state. you can't stop that.

that's why it's a national issue and the federal government is the only one who can attack it. he's saying guns are a rural problem. guns are an urban problem. that's where a lot of the crime is. new york city, we reduced the murder rate down to -- it's kind of hard to measure it so low. it used to be 2300 murders a year, now we'll have 400 murders this year. and so we know what we're doing. but we still have 400 murders. that's 400 too many. we've had -- i've probably been to 15 eulogies for cops who were killed while i've been mayor. i would suggest if you really want to understand the issue, you go, you stand up there and you look down at the children, the spouse, the parents of a cop killed by somebody with an illegal gun. and if you don't choke up, i don't know what to tell you. >> steve morse would say what you're doing, i completely agree with you, i wish some more people who represent rural areas would stand with you.

republicans, as well. >> but when you do the polling, they do. i mean, that's funny. >> where are they? >> well, it depends. where are you getting your information from? if the nra puts out a press release saying something, i'm not so sure they're an unbias source. we've done polling with republican and democratic pollsters. 80 odd percent of gun owners favor reasonable restrictions. they just do. >> what do we do about online gun sales? >> the federal government -- and this is so typical of the federal government. they pass a law. then they make sure there's no money to enforce it. you see, you didn't want anything? i took care of you. don't worry about it. you're both happy. you shouldn't be. neither of you should be. you didn't get what you wanted, but you didn't go back and pay attention to what they really did. when it comes down to gun laws, you have to have a background check at -- before you buy from a gun dealer.

99% of all gun dealers are honest, scrupulous, do background checks. it takes 24, 48 hours. it's relatively cost free. it's done on a computer. works fine. a lot of people get turned down because they can't pass the background check. the trouble is, congress doesn't give any money so that the federal -- and the federal government really is as much at fault as anybody and the president could fix this with his pen. the federal government does not put data into the database of who in the military has psychiatric parties or drug abuse problems or is a domestic abuser or miners and that sort of thing. and so the database doesn't have the data, but also 40% of the guns are sold either over the internet or at gun shows. and typical congress, they exempted gun shows. why? because gun shows are just, you know, you selling one gun to me or john and mike and mika selling one gun to me. you the truth is, you go to a gun show, the guy has 500 guns there. and it's the same thing on the internet. so it's once again, we have the

tough laws. we just have to enforce the laws. if i hear one more elected official say, let's just enforce the laws, yeah, gives the ability to do it. that's all we're asking for. of all the things we've asked, it's just that. stop the gun trafficking. people break the laws, prosecute them. you wrote the law, make it apply to everybody. >> mayor bloomberg, thank you so much. >> sad we're here. >> it's terrible, actually. coming up, who should be named "time" magazine's person of the year? we'll get a look at the finalists, next on ""morning jo joe".

a hybrid? most are just no fun to drive. now, here's one that will make you feel alive. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max says ha. c-max says wheeee. which is what you get, don't you see? cause c-max has lots more horsepower than prius v, a hybrid that c-max also bests in mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid.

you can get it with t-mobile's unlimited nationwide 4g data plan. really? yep, and their network is super fast. so fast that i reacted to how fast it was but you missed it. i'll show you in slow-mo. woooooooaaah. powww! we'll take it. honey, let's go! what? ok! [ male announcer ] get the season's hottest smartphones, like the samsung galaxy s3. and get t-mobile's unlimited 4g data on their nationwide 4g network. rom america's gift headquarters. walmart.

welcome back to "morning joe." "time "on "magazine will be unveiling their person of the year tomorrow. but there year, they have released their finalists. on the list, of course, i say this first, yahoo!'s ceo marissa mayer. egyptian president mohammed morsi on the list. undocumented americans on the list. >> invisible americans. >> bill clinton and secretary of state hillary clinton. president barack obama. malala yousafzai, the 15-year-old pakistani girl who was shot after speaking out

about her simple wish to go to school. we have the apple ceo, tim cook. the team behind the higgs boson, also known as the god particle. what an incredible array. meachum, barnacle. >> we're on the list? >> no. i'm asking you to pick one. there's my choice for so many reasons. any other choices, guys, who you think it will be and why? >> i don't know who it will be. we'll find out tomorrow, obviously, from rick stengle. i'm wondering if in rick's mind he would, at this point, wish -- nobody could have foreseen what happened last friday, but the residents and the parents in newtown, connecticut, as people of the year for the sadness they've endured, the tragedy they've lived through, the lessons that they taught the rest of us in this country in these past three or four days.

but they're not on the list and it's understandable. the list was put together -- i don't know. i mean, i guess the president of the united states for the overwhelming victory. certainly a legitimate top candidate, undocumented americans for the issues that arise over immigration and -- >> you know, mike, "time" magazine and other publications hate the obvious. you know, they say they try this in surprise, but finding somebody that, you know, is not obvious, i don't think there's any choice this year. newt gingrich said it yesterday. republicans don't understand just how bad this election was. there are a new generation of young voters that may consider themselves obama democrats who decide to shoet that way for 40 years. this re-election, john meachum,

could confirm what he tried to set out the first four years and, as newt said, it could change the landscape much as ronald reagan's victory did in 1980 and it certainly will if republicans are as ideologically blind as democrats were after reagan's victory. >> i was just thinking about '84. here is deep dork-dome. i think i am right that peter uberall was the man of the year in '84 when president reagan won 49 states. and it was a symbol of the l.a. olympics and america being back and all that. >> right. >> so you're right about, i think, magazine editors sometimes try to find the surprise. >> there's the year reagan won 49 states, of course, and really changed the landscape of american politics until barack obama was elected in 2008.

>> yeah. and the year before that was a really powerful cover, actually, in '83 which was androv and reagan looking away from each other because they weren't talking. but, you know, you could make a case -- >> what was 1982? >> was that the computer year? >> oh, my god. that's scary. >> was '82 the first personal computer? >> i think. >> which by the way, everybody was so offended by that cover. that ended up being exactly right. >> remember that beautiful portrait of reagan in '80? and '81, i don't remember. >> okay. >> this is complete dork-did on me. >> sorry. >> beyond deep dork-dome. >> but i'm just trying to say i think there are -- >> we got it. we're good. >> sorry. i'll be quiet. >> tomorrow the magazine's

person will be revealed. >> who was the first? >> lyndburg. is that right? >> alex just said 27. you talk about deep dork-dome, we have serious problems. >> so, alex, let's do a test here. so i take it you have all the lists. you're looking at -- you're looking at wikipedia or something there? alex, talk to me. when i say your name, respond. >> alex, hello. >> so let's see if "time" actually selected the man of the century and the year of the century. 1940. who was it? >> winston churchill. >> okay. if they had said neville's chamberlain lance i wouldn't

have had a problem. >> winston churchill was man of the century for what he did that year. coming up, now someone might be unfriended. brian sullivan was next. [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat.

the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option: once-a-day xarelto®. xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, that doesn't require routine blood monitoring. like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce the risk of an afib-related stroke. there is limited data on how these drugs compare when warfarin is well managed. no routine blood monitoring means bob can spend his extra time however he likes. new zealand! xarelto® is just one pill a day, taken with the evening meal. and with no dietary restrictions, bob can eat the healthy foods he likes. do not stop taking xarelto® rivaroxaban

without talking to the doctor who prescribes it for you. stopping may increase your risk of having a stroke. get medical help right away if you develop any signs or symptoms of bleeding, like unusual bruising or tingling. you may have a higher risk of bleeding if you take xarelto® with aspirin products, nsaids or blood thinners. talk to your doctor before taking xarelto® if you currently have abnormal bleeding. xarelto® can cause bleeding, which can be serious, and rarely may lead to death. you are likely to bruise more easily on xarelto®, and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. tell your doctors you are taking xarelto® before any planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions, such as kidney, liver or bleeding problems. ready to change your routine? ask your doctor about once-a-day xarelto®. for more information including cost support options, call 1-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com.

i just finished a bowl of your new light chicken pot pie soup and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. we're back with the "morning joe." look at that. that's beautiful. >> chamber of commerce day, ken dossall. >> it is grim, isn't it? >> agree. >> is sunlight permitted in december? >> no. that's bloomberg. >> okay. so you were right about, what,

1982? >> yeah. the computer. >> the computer was '82? >> yep. >> with cnbc's brian sullivan, brian. take it away. thank you, mika. good morning, by the way. look, i think we have to focus on facebook to begin here. remember about ten years ago with all the analyst hoopla, they basically said you cannot have bankers and analysts having any interaction inside an organization to try to perhaps overly influence the analysts? well, massachusetts fining morgan stanley and reprimanding them seriously over facebook. here is basically what they accused facebook of doing. a banker of the facebook deal for morgan stanley apparently wrote a script for the facebook treasurer to read to the analysts about facebook. so massachusetts said, no, no, you can't do it. almost a $5 million fine. not even a slap on the wrist. they call that a light touch on the top of the palm there. big expose on wall mrt's alleged

bribery in the "new york times" today. gas prices at the lowest level of the year. something about rainey days, a small is the best umbrella. >> that's nice. >> 1990 gorbachev. >> '81. >> what an incredible year. 1981. >> solidarity. >> brian sullivan, thank you. >> thank you, brian. >> hakino in '86. gorbachev in '87. >> the endangered earth in 1988. >> who was '89? >> gorbechav. >> '87 and '89? >> yeah. >> so ronald reagan had nothing to do with bringing down that law, i guess? >> no. ♪

[ male announcer ] with free package pickup from the u.s. postal service the holidays are easy. visit usps.com. pay, print, and have it picked up for free before december 20h for delivery in time for the holidays. you can even give us special instructions on where to find it. free package pickup. from the u.s. postal service. because it's nice to have an extra pair of hands around for the holidays.

you know, among the many questions surrounding last week's horrific school shooting in connecticut has to do with the gunman's mop. >> she reportedly took her son to shooting ranges several times, at least. and thex 20-year-old used her weapons in the attack. >> the operate over this nearby shooting range says there's nothing unusual about the guns the shooter's mother owns.

>> he apparently was a very disturbed young man with a lot of serious problem. >> why did she let him have access to the firearms at any age? >> the mother purchased her four guns between 2010 and early this year and adam and his mom practiced at firing ranges, but not recently the. >> would yow. >> jim's piece raises a lot of questions. >> jim got a response to legitimate questions. this has less to do with gun ownership than it does gun safety. why did this poor woman not lock these guns up? >> from her son who had problems his entire life. >> yeah. >> so did jim get any answers there? >> well, there were a lot of people would came forward to defend her and know her to be a responsible, caring mother who was trying very hard to help her son. up next, what, if anything, did

we learn today? [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. just like you. go national. go like a pro.

we create easy-to-use, powerful trading tools for all. look at these streaming charts! they're totally customizable and they let you visualize what might happen next. that's genius! we knew you needed a platform that could really help you elevate your trading. so we built it. chances of making this? it's a lot easier to find out if a trade is potentially profitable.

just use our trade & probability calculator and there it is. for all the reasons you trade options - from income to risk management to diversification - you'll have the tools to get it done. strategies. chains. positions. we put 'em all on one screen! could we make placing a trade any easier? mmmm...could we? around here, options are everything. yes mom, i'll place a long call to you tomorrow. i promise. open an account today and get a free 13-month eibd™ subscription when you call 1-888-280-0159 now. optionsxpress by charles schwab. military families face, we understand. at usaa, we know military life is different. we've been there. that's why every bit of financial advice we offer is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. [ laughs ] dad! dad! [ applause ] ♪

[ male announcer ] life brings obstacles. usaa brings advice. call or visit us online. we're ready to help. we're back with "morning joe." it's taum to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned it's a good exercise for everyone to go back and learn about defining dvc down which explains a lot about how people express less outrage after one outrage after another gets to expect things to happen. >> and what did you learn today, john meachum? >> i learned -- well, i relearned -- >> with the white gloves? >> we'll leave the white gloves out. but various "time" men of the year, but most importantly, mike bloomg bloomberg has the look of someone who is really determined on this and he has the money and the political wherewithal to

make a difference. >> commending leaders like him, people with a platform like you who are taking a stand on this issue, no matter what the price. >> and i learned that gun meachum had a misfit use. he just told me 1973 was judge tericca. and, you know, outside the guys that wear white gloves while their family members are out hunting, the prince of dork-dome. >> adorabldorable. >> yes. thank you. >> way too early. what time is it, mike? >> it's time for "morning joe," but right now, it's time for chuck todd. as connecticut and the country continues to cope with the tragedy, unanswered questions on wa caused the gunman to commit such horrors. and some concern that we might not ever find out. back in washington, are we actually almost maybe sort of coming to a deal on a verdict on

the so-called fiscal cliff? both sides have given in on some big key points, but is it enough to get it over the goal line? and the senate loses its most senior member. daniel inouye, who helped hawaii become a state and served that state for more than a half a century in congress. good morning from washington. it's tuesday, december 18, 2012. president obama has told his administration to start looking for ways the country can respond to the tragedy in newtown. we'll be joined by vice president biden yesterday afternoon, the president talk with top members of his team including the vice president. arne duncan, attorney general larry holder and kathleen sa beale ya. this morning, children go back to school for the first time